-- Adapted from Albert Einstein
Plywood Construction for Less
If we choose to build in plywood, before long you'll hear the statement: You'll be building with marine plywood and epoxy, of course. Both are fine materials and considered to be state-of-the-art.
But... here's where I find myself after three decades of boatbuilding for full-tie living aboard / cruising in the Pacific NorthWest (rainforest).
Marine Ply vs ACX
Marine plywood (MP) is AA (meaning both sides are nearly flawless), should be free of voids, have plies of equal thickness and relative more plies for any given thickness. It's a available in a number of species, each of which have a suite of virtues. The result is a stronger panel for its thickness when compared to plywoods of lower standard along any of these vectors.
The curious thing is that MP has mostly enabled boats to be built which are adequately strong, but lighter - using thinner marine plywood than if using lesser plywoods. Lighter means easier to drive toward a vessel's hull speed for a 'faster' boat. Except when using extreme methods the weight savings are slight for most cruisers.
In other words, the high price tag for marine ply buys 'speed' within a very narrow range (let's say from 0 to 4 - 8 knots). This is important for racers, but not nearly as much for the rest of us.
ACX (one near flawless side, one OK side and eXterior glues) of decent species (fir, various pines, spruce and cedars) should last about as well as all but the most specialized MPs).
From ACX, we can build a strong, potentially long-lived vessel for far less cash outlay.If we can personally pick through piles of ACX and have located a vendor with generally decent stacks, we can:
- Check for voids. Use a wire to assess edge gap depths... shallow knots are easy to fill, deep voids may be injected with glue.
- Check for an odd number of plies. Even numbers double interior veneers... in case of outer veneer failure, these are transverse and weak. Most 1/2in house sheathing plywood is 4 ply.
- Check for even ply thickness. Reject outer veneers which have been over-sanded.
- Check for general damage and irregularities. Reject as needed. If you know how much of a sheet you'll be using, damage can be allowed in offcut areas.
NOTE: When going through stacks, consider being scrupulous about re-stacking. You'll not only be welcome back, but you'll get a lot more help from appreciative, unpissed-off staff.
Epoxy vs PolyUrethane
Epoxy Resin is amazing stuff. Water-proof and solvent resistant once cured. Small molecules penetrate well and make the most of micro-surface areas. Various additives alter its properties for a wide range of uses. Its application is well understood and documented... although winging it is not recommended, with a little research and discipline, even beginners can get good results.
But it's expensive, toxic (mainly skin contact while wet), generates a small mountain of waste, requires special, hazmat disposal.
While plastic (bendy), epoxy is not elastomeric (stretchy).
Here's the rub: while most modern construction adhesives exceed wood fiber strength by a large margin, that wood fiber strength is the limiting factor. Merely plastic adhesives can point- and edge-load wood fiber until it gives, loading the next fiber in line. Elastomeric adhesives spread the load over a (small) region, allowing wood fibers to act together for much elevated failure thresholds.
We do continue to use epoxy in small amounts, mostly for minor repair. But it's down to a trickle.
PolyUrethane (PU) and Liquid PolyUrethane (LPU) are moisture activated, waterproof and solvent resistant when cured.
LPU expands as foam to fill gaps. This is handy so long as we recall that expanded foam is considerably weaker than the unexpanded, non-elastomeric glue film. LPUs have a quick turn-over time that can be freaky, but helps move the project along.
PU is gap filling but does not expand but is highly elastomeric. Not all are created equal, however, so check the specifications of your candidates! Before cure, it can be thinned with mineral spirits, turpentine and various oils. This makes it more compatible than epoxy with oil / pine tar finishes (we've found that it has considerable adhesion over oiled wood, especially when thinned a bit... fasteners are primary in these cases, however, on a schedule to take the full, expected load). PUs tend to have long working times (varies with brand, temperature and humidity)... this is a mixed blessing, depending on the task.
Encapsulation vs Breathable
Encapsulation means sealing the hull completely with a waterproof, usually composite barrier (fabric, resin, primer, paint). Great system. But waterproof isn't proof against hard knocks. Dings let water in, and it can't easily get out. A season of haul-out for thorough drying is advised, with solid springtime maintenance on its heels. For full-time liveaboards in a wet environment, it's a long-shot.
The old, reliable method is oil and pine tar. It wipes on in the minutes of dry between days of rain and can be done piecemeal. It's water resistant from the moment of application. It breathes and moves with the wood.
It's not only cheap, but can be made DIY.
Conclusions
Here's our current thinking for less expensive construction. We've tried most of this on one scale or another, and find ourselves returning and doubling down.
- Select ACX plywood - Fir if available. If laminating, A sides out.
- LPU Glue for lamination - LPU has good adhesion in close contact and foams up with less of adhesion to fill voids, but even this lesser bond is considerable. We don't use LPU for small area jobs, however, as it has frequently failed in these cases (non-elastomeric). Consider its use for some bulkhead framing (which can be wider area), backed up by fasteners.
Brands include Gorilla Glue and less expensive AkFix. - PU Glue for high-stress bonds - Chines, bulkhead / transom edges, deck-hull-joins can be made with chine-log construction and/or tape-and-glue methods (similar to epoxy, with PU thinned for tape saturation).
Brands include 3M5200 (the gold standard, but expensive) and DAP PU Construction Adhesive (much cheaper and seems indistinguishable in practical performance on wood).
NOTE: One advantage of PU is that it acts as a gasket, even with near-zero adhesion (contact using fasteners, say). Being elastomeric, it is compressible to create a water barrier. In these cases, any adhesion is gravy.
NOTE: We haven't tried it, but think that PU in tape-and-glue should be a good match for copper bottoms with mechanical fasteners. Epoxy and tape doesn't seem like it would be as resistant to water penetration as it wouldn't likely form a happy gasket around fastenings for copper. Could be wrong on this, but it's an expensive experiment. - TiteBond III for sheathing - Especially with a fabric matrix, this is relatively inexpensive and easy to apply while producing a durable, waterproof barrier that is easy to maintain and repair. Topcoat with primer and paint.
NOTE: We're about to try concrete slurry with a fabric matrix for deck sheathing. Hoping for low cost, longevity and good footing while avoiding paint topcoat. Will keep you posted with results! Might even work for the hull above and below the waterline (though we won't be trying that). - Oil / Pine Tar for sealing - Without a fabric matrix, these (in various Boat Soup proportions and recipes) are inexpensive, can be applied in a wide range of conditions and results in a breathable finish (moisture can come and, importantly, go!).
We're trying a primer coat of tung oil (we've read that it's more resistant to mildew than linseed oil... so far so good) with 10-20% pine tar (can be purchase inexpensively at agricultural supply stores as treatment for animal wounds) and thinned by turpentine as conditions require (We're building in winter. Again.).
The top coat can range from 50-100% pine tar. In the interior, we'll try furniture wax over the primer coat for the interior for a wipe-down finish.
One conjecture from George Beuhler that rolls around my head is the use of asphalt roofing tar for lamination. He noted that it's very adhesive once set (most volatiles evaporated). It would be far less messy between sheets of ply!
We've used it with success for various small jobs around the boat. Once set, it can be painted with latex paint without bleeding. White paint helps keep it cool and solid in (at least our PNW) sunny weather. On decks it can be topcoated with aluminamized trailer paint with a slight stipple for good footing.
A last possibility we toy with is using trunnels (wood 'nails') rather than metal. They're time / labor intensive, but superior in almost every other respect. Maybe in our next youth.
Lots of savings possible if building out-of-the-box!
Building? is there another project on the go? Will it go the same way as the Mustelid build, expidition, yotube and article series? This raises hopes as that project was exellent in its entirety, just did a watch through again over christmas. Thanks for updating us all with your state of the "how to go about keeping the water on the outside without crippling the wallet while keeping the goblins off rot at bay"
ReplyDeleteHi,
DeleteYep. Yet another boat in a series struggling to end. This one a bigger version of MUSTELID to live aboard.
Alas, I don't think we'll be doing much like that series again. But maybe now and then a vid or two from along the way? Will post about it once there's something to see.
Thanks for your kind words!
Dave Z
very exiting stuff. Looking forwards to read more about it. Mustelid really seam to hit a the sweet spot in ease of use, imersion in the environment and facilities needed to live in some version of comfort. I think you really picked a winner there. I have been thinking about the merit of extending the cabin bolger birdwatcher style but keeping the forwards section rowing focussed with some oar ports. it would allow a group of 4 to 5 people to travel and sleep in comfort here in the north of Sweeden where the season is short and the sea is cold. If i ever come out of the day dreaming phase i will shoot you a picture of the bastardisation of your brain child.
DeleteIt sure hit OUR sweet spot, and am glad to hear that it appeals to others!
DeleteA thought on the BW cabin with dedicated rowing:
Anke, especially, loves an outdoor rowing station (likes her head in the wind). If the sides are parallel along the cockpit (constant beam and flare, no sheer rise) then a 'shell' can be slid to open and enclose the area and forward to close it, telescoping with permanently enclosed areas. Would probably work best midships or aft. Tricky, but intriguing.
You might also consider a a Hobie Mirage Drive Unit or two in the dedicated propulsion space... it's leg powered and can provide a LOT of thrust.
Happy doodling!
Dave Z
I like the open cockpit idea, but as long as the kids are tagging along a good cabin takes priority. I am really take with the hullshape. the dory stern sampan bow really makes it for me. every time i see my dory upp on the saw horses for the winter i think that stern is a good bow, so i am fairly comitted to the shape, and making sacrifices to get parralell sides is a big ask. I am considering making the windows slide open, but in a knockdown... make the boat a couple of feet longer to allow a larger cabin without compromising the cockpit, but weight, materials, handling... and so the spiral goes. I just looked up hobie drives. that is an interesting idea, i love rowing, but that is not an either or is it? luckily i have a smaller sharpie, Little egret by ross lillistone, to finish before i commit to the next build, so there is time to ruminate, and maybe someone suddenly publish a genious article on the next iteration of mustelid sending us all down new avenues of thinking.
DeleteThe parallel sides aren't necessary... just a plus for us lazy builders. As it turns out, we probably spent 10x the time figuring it out than actually lofting and cutting the simple curves involved. Waste is negligible, anyway.
DeleteIf you try the Hobie Mirage Drive (on your sharpie, maybe?) let us know how it goes!
Dave z
AHH telescoping midsection with the ends being fully attached..... Now there is a thought, that may be an easier construction to archieve..
DeleteGreat post and thanks. FYI found this blurb on the web re tar:
ReplyDeletewent to the northwest school of wooden boat building, and was fortunate enough to get to work on some of the last wooden commercial fish boats running out of the Pacific Northwest. The commercial guys do it very different from the yachties. Wood can be very economical, if you are okay with a workboat finish, instead of a yacht finish. Roofing tar is your #1 cheap wooden boat tool. It seals, it prevents rot, it holds stuff together, hah. Need a cheap filler? The fisherman mix a little cement in with there roofing tar. I findroofing tar for free/cheap on Craigslist/garage sales all the time.
I am only aware of bedded canvas being used on decks. It is super difficult to do a traditional caulked wood deck that won't leak a drop. Canvas bedded in tar over a caulked deck was the solution they came up within the old timey times. The tar does the waterproofing, the canvasjust keeps the tar off you, and keep you from scraping the tar off by accident. Then you gotta saturate the canvas to prevent it rotting. I like oil based enamel like Rust-Oleum, but did you ever get a blob of cheapy latex housepaint on your t-shirt? Did you notice how it was still there after 20+ wash/dry cycles? Even cheapy latex housepaint is pretty tough. Yes the marine stuff has more UV inhibitors etc. it's good stuff, but for a plywood boat you aren't going to coat with epoxy, I think house paint is fine.
Hi,
DeleteI agree that tar is great stuff, with lots of great solvents and thickeners to widen its applications.
We've preferred section-of-cylinder ply decks for the reasons you cite. We've tried tar, lagging compounds (lately) and lately TiteBondIII approaches. All have worked well from tar good to TBIII best.
We're going to try cement slurry/fabric in this build to get around having to paint (we're retrograding fast!).
You're right about latex houseplants. Our latest prefer is less cheapy (Valspar), but is a primer/topcoat, so breaks even if buying both and both in one container for easy storage. Contrary to competitor sales folk, it goes on easy and has stood up better than any other we've tried.
Tough stuff indeed!
Dave Z
BTW... The POPEYE illustration is AI generated... there are (at least) two give-aways, though human artists often make the same mistakes.
ReplyDeleteHi Dave and Anke, great post! Thought I would share what I've been doing along this line. I've been building my boats from really El cheapo 3/8 spruce sheathing for the past 8 years or so. Pretty rough stuff, only 3 plies, voids and knots...not boat material! But, my little 10 ft cruising box boat with birdwatcher cabin has now cruised me for 5 seasons and is still going strong! Lives on a trailer outside when not on the water. Usually I go on 3 to 5, one week long cruises per year, with another 2 to 6 weekend cruises. Freshwater in Ontario. Latex exterior housepaint. Screw and glue with PL Premium glue. On the bottom I glued polyester upholstery fabric from a thrift store, set in Gorilla Wood Glue (PVA, type II water resistant, same as Titebond II, not III). Saturated the cloth with the glue. It has been tough as heck, with no damage or notable wear after 5 years, despite running up onto rocks, stumps and sandbars on a regular basis! Chines were covered by 3 inch wide strips of the material, set in the Gorilla Wood Glue. The Gorilla Wood Glue is less than half the price of Titebond III ($10 vs $25 nowadays ). Built the boat in 3 weeks, cost $300. Totally NOT the way to build a boat. Irresponsible. A mockery to Right Thinking Yachtsmen.
ReplyDeleteHi Todd,
DeleteMock on, my friend... not a Right Thinking Yachtsman in sight! 8)
Love the way you roll!
Dave Z
Great news for us folks in places epoxy is outrageously expensive. And proven by EXPERIENCE so validified to the max. We have a "relatively" (to 3M 5200) good PU here in Mexico that has held up well (years) in various outdoor projects and is half the 5200 price (called "Duretan"). My last dingy build I used it for the chines and so far so good. I suspect it would do well for bigger boats too. I'm also intrigued by George (R.I.P.) Buehlers theory of roofing tar used as bedding for strip planking on hard chined boats. Given that the strips don't have to be beveled due to no curved panels seems it would seal even better and be a WAY cheap way to build a sound hull of locally grown and milled wood. Strips with NO bedding have worked well, or with just thickened paint, so tar seems a no-brainer. Thanks for sharing this experience and wisdom senor Dave-Mon!!!!!!!!
ReplyDelete